Jonas Deichmann

This transcript was generated automatically (YouTube auto-captions) and then edited for readability: names and obvious mis-hearings corrected, filler words removed, speaker labels added where the speaker is clear. Passages that could not be understood are marked [unclear]; short omitted passages are marked [...]. Timestamps are approximate. The recording is the authoritative version.

Host 00:00:00

Hello and welcome back everybody to a new episode of Campus To Capital. Today we are joined by Jonas Deichmann, an extreme sport athlete, adventurer, motivational speaker, best-selling author, and the holder of multiple world records. Hello Jonas.

Jonas Deichmann

Hello. Good morning. It's a big pleasure to be here.

Host

Yeah, big pleasure for us as well. And yeah, Jonas, you've been called the German Forrest Gump and have become a global phenomenon in the world of endurance sports. But before we get into all the records, who were you before all of this?

Jonas Deichmann

Well, I come from southern Germany, from the Black Forest, and I did basically sports all my life. And then I studied international business in a few countries, at first in Sweden and Brazil and Singapore, then in Copenhagen and India. And during university I also cycled once around the world. In kind of, I studied a little bit extra and then I did it in my longer exchange semester and semester breaks. And after that I worked in software sales in Munich, but I already had this dream of combining like an endurance athlete, what

00:01:30

I was doing when I was also a little bit younger, and the adventure of going around the... So I started with those cycling world records and then projects simply grew.

Host

Okay. So what you're saying is that you have been having a love for extreme sports for a very long time and it just gradually became more extreme per se.

Jonas Deichmann

It definitely, it's also a little bit, it started my childhood. It's a little bit of a family tradition. I come from a very adventurous family. My grandfather for example lived in western Africa and we always were on adventures with my family, and I did always more sports than everybody. And during university this kind of international exposure and everything led to one thing after another, and then projects... It's basically, you don't wake up and think, well, now I'm doing 120 Ironman distances in a row. It's a process.

Konstantin Girst

That's really cool. I mean, Julius and I were saying earlier, I think nowadays like everybody can travel the world. Everybody can just go on a plane and go to America, for example, whereas a couple of decades ago that wasn't that usual and it would be very interesting to hear from people that would go and explore different continents. And I think now we are at a stage where it's interesting for people to hear that go and explore other countries, continents, cultures in these extreme ways like you do, as that

00:03:00

is not that usual I would say. And looking at the stuff you've done so far, I think one of the most impressive things was the 120 long distance triathlons in 120 days. So for everybody who doesn't know, that's 3.8 km of swimming, 180 km of cycling, and an entire marathon every single day for 120 days in a row. And in order to complete this challenge, you said that it takes unconditional will. So I would like to know, where does that unconditional will come from?

Jonas Deichmann

Yeah, it was definitely the hardest challenge I have done so far, because there was no buffer. It's the full Ironman distance every day, whatever it takes. And the thing is, there are a lot of strategies for dealing with challenges, for creating mental strength and this unconditional will. But there's one thing that stands out, how you actually train this, and it is to run towards challenges, to not take the easy path in life, because it's outside the comfort zone where you grow and where you develop. I always say nobody ever created mental strength on the couch. It's if you go and run towards challenges, and I always took the difficult route, and that's how you get stronger.

Host 00:04:31

Yeah, definitely. I agree. I think for me it's something I've realized, that you get to a point and then you notice that leaving your comfort zone helps you to grow and helps you become a better person. And then I feel like you kind of also get addicted to that development and you always want to get better and achieve more things, right?

Jonas Deichmann

Definitely. It's something, borders and limits, they exist especially in the head, and you can extend them and you get a different reference point. So, it's something, for most people even one Ironman distance is something unimaginable, and I can tell you in my bubble it's something, well, it's a normal day. For some you have to train a bit, for others just do it like this. The thing is, in my bubble completing one Ironman is absolutely normal, and this is what I want to say. The same you could say for a marathon. You will find millions of people who think marathon running is kind of supernatural. And the reality is absolutely not. Everybody can do it with a little bit of preparation and wanting it badly enough. And this is the thing: limits and borders can change and you can extend them.

Host 00:06:02

So, as you just noted, your accomplishments are not only physically but also mentally crushing. So I would like to pick your brain on this. Like, is there a mental framework when things get tough? Or what do you tell yourself? And also in that context, can you describe a moment on one of your journeys where you genuinely thought about quitting and how did you deal with that?

Jonas Deichmann

So, first of all, I never thought about quitting with none of my challenges, because this next small step, it's always possible, and then another one, then another one, and eventually you're there. And there are a few things that you kind of can do. It's first of all unconditional optimism. And that doesn't mean to be naive or unrealistic about things. It is more like a way of thinking about things. You can either say, well, I have never done that before, or nobody has ever done that before, so it's impossible. Or you think, well, that simply means I have never tried or nobody has ever tried, and then it's probably possible. So it's kind of a way of thinking. Do you see the good thing or the bad thing in it? And if you are an optimist and surrounded by other optimists, so that's also something super important, to create a surrounding of

00:07:32

positive people, then you learn that there's always a way. There are always better times coming. That's one thing that's super important. And also use a language and words of thinking in particular that are positive. So no "maybe", no "I hope", but "yes, I can do that" or "we can do that". It's super important.

And then there's also one thing that's very important, and this is on the one side having a big vision. So having this big goal and also visualizing this, but in a day-to-day business, especially if it's challenging, to break it down into small goals. Which means when I do 120 Ironman distances in a row and after 5 days everything hurts, I'm not thinking, well, I don't really feel that good and I've just done five and 115 are still coming. This is not motivating. Not at all. But what I think is, right now I go for a swim and then I get a nice breakfast and then I go for the first cycling lap, that's actually not that far, and then I get already lunch, and then the marathon anyway. It's like you run from one food station to the next one, or one kilometer after another, to the next hill, then to another one, and eventually you're there. So you have this big goal but you break it down into small ones.

Host

So, next to this mental framework, as you just said, it's very important to kind of be with the right group of people to kind of push each

00:09:02

other and to grow together. But when you're out on the road and you're out on your explorations, I imagine you're not necessarily always with that kind of group that pushes you. So I would like to know, from all the different countries you've been to, what were the most maybe unexpected acts of kindness or the toughest cultural clashes that you have faced on the road?

Jonas Deichmann

Well, there's one thing: you still have your friends and your surroundings and your people even if you are traveling alone around the world, because there are still people in your family and your friends in your network that you will be in contact, even in Siberia or the Mexican desert. You can still have a phone call with your family when you have tough times, and in particular then it's important that those people are positive.

For me, in terms of culture, the most interesting and kindest and the most challenging ones, I go with the kindest first, and that's of course Mexico. I mean, first of all I have to say I've been to more than 100 countries and I met wonderful people basically everywhere. That's the nice thing that traveling like an uncommon path, not on the normal tourist roads, teaches you. But Mexico stands out. Simply, when I was doing the triathlon around the world, I ran across Mexico from Tijuana to Cancun and

00:10:32

there was a street dog that followed me, and then that became a national news story and I became famous as the German Forrest Gump in Mexico. And then thousands of Mexicans joined, and this was like, in every village I got a big reception with mariachi groups and invitations for dinner and everything, and then I got a police escort and the people joined and everything was a big party basically every day. And it was completely unplanned, and this kindness of the Mexicans and the craziness, but in a positive way, and how funny they were, is something absolutely extraordinary.

And in terms of culture, of course, I did have some challenges. First of all, I have to say there's no culture that's better than another one. That's a very wrong point of view. The thing is rather that cultures have sometimes a completely different way of thinking, and one culture may fit better with another one than with some others. And I take the example of Egypt. When I was doing the world record cycling from Cape North to Cape Town, averaging 250k every day on the bicycle, I also cycled across Egypt, and they are a little bit afraid of terrorist attacks against tourists. So you have all 50, 60k, and

00:12:02

you have a police or a military checkpoint, and first of all they have no interest that you continue cycling. And now the interesting thing is, it's a very high power hierarchy. So if the commander of this checkpoint sleeps or does something else, there's no policeman who will wake him up. They will simply tell you, well, you have to wait here now, and he will come, you know, just a few minutes. That can mean hours. And the thing is, this is power hierarchy. In European countries you can kind of talk and they understand, oh well, this is kind of important, and then maybe the policeman will make a decision or he will call his boss or wake him up or whatever. In Egypt it's high power hierarchy, so the policeman will never take a decision without asking a superior. And that meant for me, it was so annoying, [unclear] delay all the time, and I even spent the night in an Egyptian prison cell. So this is something where you really had this clash, but it's also because my understanding is simply, well, what's the problem? And in a different culture it's

00:13:32

it is a problem.

Host

Well, the prison story is definitely one for the grandkids.

Yeah, I think so as well.

Host

I mean, there are certainly things that you then just can't plan for, right, logistically. Because I also watched your Netflix documentation, The Limit Is Just Me, which I can really recommend for everyone that's interested and listening right now, where you document your triathlon around the world, which is probably one of the most ambitious endurance projects in history. And it was during COVID, right? So I was wondering, how do you plan logistically for something that massive, because there are just things that you can't plan for?

Jonas Deichmann

Yeah, definitely the challenges during the triathlon around the world, which was during the pandemic, it was completely unplannable. I had the idea for this project before the pandemic, but then COVID came and I thought, well, let's anyway, let's do it. And the thing is, you never know. I mean, yes, it was challenging, but now this entire project would not even be possible because of the war in Ukraine and Russia. So considering the... there is never the perfect time for something like that, and it's super unpredictable to think what's

00:15:02

in, to plan what's in five years. And for me, so to quickly summarize, my planned route was to swim 460k [unclear] the Croatian coast and then I wanted to cycle across Turkey and then Iran, Pakistan, India, Southeast Asia, and then run across the US. But in the end, due to border closures that we had during the pandemic, I had to completely change my route, because borders were closed and sometimes I didn't know the next day if I can cross the border. And in the end I ended up cycling across Eastern Europe and then across Siberia in winter, and I ran across Mexico instead of the US. But somehow it worked out.

And also, I mean, the customs, they were completely, with online trade, they were completely on the limit. So sometimes I had to wait for months and the things didn't arrive. So I had to make a different plan and kind of get my resupplies. And this is the thing: you need a plan, but you also need to be willing and able to adapt immediately. And for me it was always, I have to make a decision. That was the important thing. Things can change, and if it turns out this was the wrong decision, I'm not sad about that, because I simply had different information.

Host 00:16:32

So would you say that sometimes it might be even easier if you don't have a plan and just go with the flow, because you can't influence it yourself anyways?

Jonas Deichmann

It depends on what the project is. And if I take, I'm an adventurer. So if somebody wants to cycle across Siberia in winter or across the desert in summer, what I have done, and you go without a plan, you will die. This is very, very simple. So this is simply a very stupid idea for those kind of situations where you go into very extreme situations. You need a plan, and with a plan I mean also a plan how to adapt your plan, how to decide. You need experience, because this is something, with this kind of challenges, with every big challenge in life, you learn how to react and deal with uncertainty and setbacks.

But still, this is valid for the very extreme situations. In general, if you have a big dream, if you have an idea for something, don't over plan it, because you have to do this first step and then you will learn and you will grow with that. If you plan until everything is there, well, somebody else has done it in the meantime.

Host 00:18:04

I mean, for everybody that has been listening, I think from experiences that you had and you just mentioned, we could make tens, maybe even hundreds of different podcasts about you running across Mexico, being in Siberia, biking across Egypt. And I mean, you do take your experiences and learnings and put them into speeches and motivational speeches. So, you bring lessons to people that listen to you. And I think it's very interesting how that is done, right? So I think, could you maybe give us an insight of how you take values and lessons that you learned from your experiences and turn them into motivational speeches?

Jonas Deichmann

Yeah, sure. So I hold motivational speeches with most big European, or in particular German, Swiss and Austrian companies. But the thing is, I tell my story of the most extreme expeditions and challenges and how I deal with that. Because in the end, of course you need the right body for that, but the body you can train. The longer and harder it gets, it is a matter of your mind, of the mindset. This is how you deal with challenges. And this is something that is transferable for everybody, for everything in life. The key principles of success in endurance sports, in adventure, you can transfer them to the business

00:19:34

world or to private life or whatever. And the thing is, I see myself more as an inspiration to businesses, which means I'm not telling them, well, you have to do that and that and that, because I'm not a financial analyst or a marketing guy. So what I tell them is, this is my story and that works for what I'm doing, and I'm sure it works for most other things, but you have to do this transfer and you have to accept it.

Host

Okay. So I mean, even if you say, okay, I'm not going to give you exactly something to do or like an exact key to success, like, I mean those things definitely sort of influence each other, and like value from one world definitely also leaps into the other one. And I mean in that context, as you said earlier, you studied international business, so you definitely also have a background in that world as well. What world has more influence on the other? Is it business experience that helps you with, I don't know, a mental state, risk assessment for your expeditions and extreme challenges? Or is it more so that the values and mental learnings you get from that have more influence on the business side of things?

Jonas Deichmann

Well, it's a difficult question to answer, because I would definitely say I have learned more during my adventures and expeditions in terms of how you deal with challenges and

00:21:05

how you react, how you progress. But the thing is, having a base understanding of the business is something that is super, super important, because I'm also now an entrepreneur. I have a very successful business marketing my adventures. So I live from sponsors. I have written a few bestseller books, like the Netflix, do commercial advertising deals, and most importantly speeches with a lot of big corporations. And to kind of understand also about storytelling, about marketing and everything, that helps of course. Also, I mean, if I have a speech and they know I have studied business and I have worked in sales, then that means they can relate more to what I tell them.

The thing is, what I meant with "I won't tell them exactly what to do" is, I mean, every company is expert in their business. So I'm not a person to tell the big pharmaceutical company how to run their business. This would be completely uncredible. So what I tell them is basically, those are principles that work in my context and they work in most other things, and

00:22:36

I'm having some anecdotes and stories and emotions that can kind of relate to that. And so you kind of need both, but with business, having a foundation is something that's super important, and then also for me as an entrepreneur and an adventurer.

Host

I mean, you just briefly touched upon that you can make a great living off of your passion. And over the time you've built this unique personal brand, not just as an athlete, as you just said, but also as an inspirational figure for many people. Was that brand strategy intentional or was that something that evolved naturally? And was there also a first moment where you realized that the conventional career path wasn't for you and that you can really make a living from your passion?

Jonas Deichmann

Yeah. So also the second question first, because it kind of builds on each other. Already [unclear] university, I was always sure I want to be self-employed. I want to be an entrepreneur. That was always my passion. But I still know that after university... [...] But I can also tell you, in the first two years in the business world you learn a lot of things that you don't learn at university.

00:24:06

That is something also super important to know. So when I was finished my master degrees, for me it was absolutely clear I want to have my own company, but not right now. I want to work in sales, because sales is something, whatever you do afterwards, having your own company, you have to understand sales, because every service, every product, every company sells something. And so I worked in software sales to gain kind of experience and also have a little bit of a financial cushion to then be self-employed, because it's kind of good if you can survive the first two years until the turnover, the sales come. And then my former boss basically sponsored my first world record, and after that I wanted more of it, and then I founded my own company as an adventurer.

And from that moment on, I always of course thought about my personal brand and what's unique to that. Of course the brand involves also, a personal one, so now I definitely have a different one than three or four years ago. It evolved much more into those, when people in Mexico, thousands of people joined, or now with my 120 Ironmans in 120 days. It was the most successful project, also marketing wise, and with

00:25:36

the reach of almost half a billion people, that people joined. And if you have thousands of people who run the first marathon with you, the first Ironman with you, then this is a different brand than being an athlete who is alone somewhere in the forest. So, but the thing is, I'm very aware of my personal brand and I do projects and things that pay into that, and that's the most important thing definitely.

Host

I mean, this sort of personal brand topic is I think now more important than it ever has been, right? I mean, the digital creator economy is growing every single day by massive amounts. I mean, people getting their own Netflix shows, digital creators, influencers are becoming more relevant for brands than actors or like superstar athletes. I mean, I just saw that Adidas, for example, Adidas posted a TikTok of two social media stars at a soccer charity match, and that clip got more views in a very short amount of time than any of their other videos before with the biggest athletes like Messi or something. So, and you being a part of that world, would you maybe have three specific things or very important topics to be on the lookout for within that space of creating your own personal brand?

Jonas Deichmann 00:27:06

Definitely. So, I'm actually also not necessarily a big fan of the classical influencer world, because it's very superficial and I don't think for everybody it's very sustainable. Because that's what I want to say: to really create a long-lasting personal brand, the most important thing is to be authentic, which means to do projects that you really want. Passion is the core. And it also means saying no. Which means if you are an influencer and you kind of get this big offer from a brand, and then two weeks you get another offer from their competitor, and now this water tasted the best, and two weeks later the other water tasted the best. I mean, you will simply destroy your personal brand for some quick money, and that is something that doesn't work for me.

That means not only with my partners I am very selective, but also with projects. I of course have a business case behind every project, but that doesn't change that with every project I do, the most important question is: do I really want this? Is this my passion? And if the answer is yes, then I can look for the business plan and how to make money out of that. But I have to want it badly enough.

Absolutely agree.

Jonas Deichmann

This is something, be authentic

00:28:37

is definitely the most important thing. Then, be unique. I only do projects that nobody has done before, which means also why I'm not doing races. If you look into athletes, if you are an athlete, not in soccer, is a commercially completely different world, but basically in all other sports it works the way you have to be number one, or you have to be one of the very top guys in the sport, and everybody wants that. There are thousands who basically want to be the number one. And in triathlon for example, if you are number 10, this is incredible, this is a full-time job and you are one of very few, but to make money of that, very difficult. And also long-term, because nobody cares once you don't perform anymore, so it is not sustainable.

And the thing is, with my projects I always do things that are unique. So you kind of have your blue ocean, where you define your own projects, which means you have a higher success rate of course, also because you can choose what you do, and it's more sustainable, because as long as you are creative you can adapt and change. So, yeah, be unique, do things that

00:30:07

nobody else does, is something that's super important for the personal brand.

Host

I think that's a very valuable takeaway for not only us, but also all the listeners out there. And you just said that you always try to find a unique new challenge, and you also started doing the triathlons, because I think originally you have a cycling background, right?

Jonas Deichmann

Yep.

Host

So somehow you couldn't find any new challenges for purely cycling and then transition to triathlons. But how do you deal with that sort of pressure of always having to find a new unique challenge? Yeah. For the media, the audience or even yourself?

Jonas Deichmann

Well, first of all, I mean a little bit of pressure is of course very good. You need kind of a bit of pressure to perform. The question is how high is the pressure, and is this a pressure that yourself put on you or is it from others? This is a very different situation. And for me it's, yes, I have to find new projects, I have to find projects that are interesting, but I can choose completely what kind of projects I do. And in that sense, if I would compare myself, I mean I'm also a professional athlete, if I think in different athletes or sports, I mean you have to win the Olympics, you have to be world champion, and there are thousand others who want exactly

00:31:37

the same thing as you. So the pressure, if you have a big sponsorship contract and your sponsors expect you to be world champion and then on that day you are just fifth or sixth, that is pressure. This is super high pressure. So in that sense I kind of have quite low pressure from external partners.

And there's also a thing that's called goodwill, and that means my last projects have been incredibly successful. This particular triathlon around the world and now the 120 Ironman distances in a row, marketing wise, they were much, much more successful and bigger than anybody dreamed basically. Which means my sponsors, I mean, I don't have sponsors that are kind of in classical influencer deals, looking for how many clicks does this post have, and if it's not enough, then there's no money. So this is not the kind of partnerships I'm having. I have long-term partnerships with my sponsors and they know I have delivered in the past. I have a track record. And if you have this kind of track record, then there is not that much pressure, because they know

00:33:07

well, in the long term I will again deliver something. So this is something you have to deserve, of course, to work for, which also means to be very wise about the challenges you choose. The thing is, for example, as an adventurer everybody knows I do projects where there is risk of failure, also for external things. I mean, if I get an injury or something like that, or there are things that can happen, or I have an accident. But there are different ways of failing. And for example, if I do 120 Ironman distances in a row and before I tell everybody, well, this is what I'm doing, it's a big project, and then on day 80 I have an accident, nobody will have a problem with that in terms of sponsors, because they know, well, I came quite far and there was this risk and it didn't work out. If I simply overestimate myself and on day three I basically give up because I'm too tired, oh, this is super embarrassing, and to get out of that, it's difficult. So you shouldn't overestimate yourself.

Host

Well, I think just to close off on this topic of branding and creating pressure for yourself to be authentic, I think it's

00:34:37

for most people, I'm sure it's like very, very tempting, if they start out in this world of creators, that they think, okay, if I just get out as much content as possible and post as much, especially in the fast-paced world of people scrolling endlessly on TikTok or Instagram, it's very tempting for people just to like pump out a lot of content that is not very authentic or not super original. But I think the key to success here is, as you said, to be there and to create value by providing something interesting and unique.

And I mean, we had the same thing when we started off with this. We thought, okay, we're not going to try to make one podcast every week. We would rather maybe even reach out to 50 more people if it takes that much to get one more interesting guest. Because we always thought, okay, it's going to be a way better project. It's going to be more fun for us. It's going to be more valuable for our listeners if we just get interesting people on here and have good conversations instead of just trying to pump out content. And then, as you said earlier for your triathlon, it's all about that framework. When you just treat those four kilometers of swimming as a nice little swim in the morning, then the pressure is not there. If we just think about, okay, we only want to produce high-quality content, we don't even take a look at what the other side of the road might look like, where we could just try to do less and not as high quality stuff.

Jonas Deichmann

Definitely, definitely. It's something, yes, you need of course output, but it

00:36:08

should never be on expense of quality. That is super important.

Host

So you keep pushing boundaries for years. So I was wondering, is there one challenge that you still dream about but haven't dared to pursue yet?

Jonas Deichmann

Yes, there is. Actually, there are a few challenges on my bucket list that I want to do in the future, of course, and I will do in the future. And there's also one very big thing. It's not that I haven't dared to do it. It's rather, I mean, I have projects that sometimes take over a year. So there are things, it builds up, and there are things where I also think, okay, this is what fits now best in my life, and then there comes something that fits afterwards in my life. And there is a huge project I have in my mind for already a few years. The good thing is I'm doing it actually in two years, and it's of course top secret.

Host

That makes sense. So my follow-up question is not evident then anymore. [...]

00:37:38

[...]

Jonas Deichmann

Have the courage to follow your passion. And so really think about what you want. Especially in university, especially in a good business school, there are a lot of people who tell you you have to take this career path, and you should really ask yourself, is this what I want? Is this really what I want? Because first of all, life is way too short to do something you don't want. And if you follow your absolute passion, you follow something that you really love, then you go consistently the extra mile over years and then you will become very, very good in that. It doesn't mean to do something that you have to make money. It has to be a career path that there is a business behind, there is a future. But it's better to go to something that's maybe not what everybody else does, what everybody else says, but something you really are passionate about. And have the courage, because the best moment is usually now. And get people around you that lift you higher. So people that believe in you, that don't tell you all the time, no, this is a bad idea. But

00:39:08

if you have a dream, you can do it, but you have to get to the starting line.

Host

Thank you so much. I mean, I think that's a very, very valuable piece of advice. [...] I think a lot of people are very easy to get carried away by, I don't know, potential success in money or what society expects of them, to kind of not necessarily entirely reflect on what they truly care about and what's truly important to them. So I think that's a very, very important thing to listen to and live your life by. And I mean, even if somebody is not that passionate about sports, I think the insights to personal growth and development are something that provides lessons to be learned for everybody listening today. So thank you very much for these valuable insights.

And now before we come to an end here, I think I would have to have one more question, maybe also in the realm of advice, but tailored more onto you and not general advice to young people like us. Because now from all the experiences and personal learnings that you've made along the way, and also with the things that are probably yet to come, if you would be able to sit down now and write a postcard to the young Jonas right before he went on his first expedition, what would you say?

Jonas Deichmann

Good question. Well, to

00:40:38

be honest, I'm very happy with the paths I took and where I am now. I love my life as it is. So I would write: just do it.

Perfect.

Jonas Deichmann

That's the important thing. Yeah. Yeah. And enjoy the journey to get there. But yeah, this is important.

Host

Awesome. Nice. Yeah. Well then, thank you so much for coming on today. I think this was again a very exciting conversation. I keep saying that at the end of every episode, but I think right now the people we're talking to, they all bring very great energy and it's always very, very fun to talk to people and get kind of an insight into their world and their experience. So, thank you. Thank you so much.

And yeah, also thank you to our listeners for tuning in. Make sure to give a nice rating for the episode depending on the streaming platform that you're listening on. Check out our social media and then get ready for tuning in again in two weeks for our next episode. Yeah. Thank you so much and have a great day.

Jonas Deichmann

Thank you.

Awesome. Thanks.