Kim Rants

This transcript was generated automatically (YouTube auto-captions) and then edited for readability: names and obvious mis-hearings corrected, filler words removed, speaker labels added where the speaker is clear. Passages that could not be understood are marked [unclear]; short omitted passages are marked [...]. Timestamps are approximate. The recording is the authoritative version.

Konstantin Girst 00:00:16

So, welcome back to a new episode of Campus To Capital. Today, Julius and I are joined by Kim Rants. And I mean, as I said earlier, there are loads of interesting things to talk about. You spent some time at McKinsey, you also spent some time at LEGO, but now, most interestingly, you're the founder of Alice.tech, which is also something we're going to talk about today. So, very nice to have you here, and welcome.

Kim Rants 00:00:36

Thanks for having me.

Julius Ambrosius 00:00:38

Yeah, thank you for being here. So, as Konstantin already mentioned, you had a remarkable transition from climbing that corporate ladder, so to say, at McKinsey and LEGO, to now, yeah, doing something in entrepreneurship. And what really led you to the decision to make that leap?

Kim Rants 00:00:56

It's a good question. I think I'm one of those people that have always dreamt about starting something. I didn't really have a good reason when I was younger. It was just like, it felt like sort of the ultimate professional challenge. So I always felt like I had to start something one day. Then time passed, I didn't do it. I ended up in McKinsey. I had fun there. And then all of a sudden everything around AI happened. And I had sort of, I guess I was... I'm 33 now, so I was probably 31 back then. And I was like, if I'm ever going to do this, now it's probably a good time, because I could see things changing. It's not like I couldn't do it later, but I feel like it is easier to start a business when you don't have kids and all these things, and I don't. So then I just took a step back. I thought about what are the things that I'm passionate about and that I know something about, and then I sort of landed on the intersection of AI and education. And then I actually quite quickly made the decision, like in a number of weeks. I sort of decided to quit [unclear] and start something else. So that was it.

Host 00:02:00

Cool. And I think this question, I would not be surprised if you've got that one before, but I think a very superficial criticism towards consultants is often that they give advice on how to make business decisions, but then people question, do they actually know how to make a business decision if they've never worked within a business? And now with you having been on both sides, on the consultancy side and also on the side of being a founder of a quite successful startup,

00:02:27

how did your view on leadership decisions, or your approach towards leadership decisions, change?

Kim Rants 00:02:34

I mean, I really appreciated being in McKinsey. I think it's a cool place. You learn a lot. You don't really go wrong with it. I'm very happy being on the other side now. I think it is more exciting, can you say, being on the owner part and not just the consulting part, where you sort of make decisions and you have to live with them. So I don't know if I'm answering your question fully, but I think there's a lot of things that I sort of enjoyed and I learned from McKinsey. But it is very different being on this side, and now we've also had some consultants work for us a few times. We try not to do that too much because we're a startup, and it's definitely not the McKinsey and those type of consultants, but it's more different type of things. And I appreciate this side much more. And it is also when you're sort of building a team now. I mean, McKinsey is very project based, so you can be a leader, but you don't have people reporting to you. You don't really have people that you need to inspire in the same way, that will sort of be on your team for years and years. And I think that's quite different than being a consultant, where it's more project based and you sort of jump from one client to another and so on. So I enjoy this much, much more.

Host 00:03:46

Interesting. And also, I think what goes hand in hand, I think it's safe to say that when you make decisions as a founder, they'll have a greater impact on you, and the results will affect you more, and you'll have to live with them. So maybe now, with you having been in the founder space for quite some time: what would you have done differently in hindsight, or what are you quite happy about, that you made some very right, impactful decisions on?

Kim Rants

I'll start speaking while I'm thinking. But I think some things that I'm happy that I did is that I just, can you say, acted. Like, going back to just starting the company, it's been probably the most thrilling one and a half years professionally. I think it would have been super easy to sort of not do it and just stay in McKinsey, building that career even further, all these things. So I'm happy I just sort of did it. Then I'm happy that I've, can you say, made the decision to just be super ambitious and apply for Y Combinator, or set the bar really high, or try to build a company that I and some people will find very inspiring to be in. It won't be for everyone. We work more than the average company in Denmark and so on. But I'm happy that I've sort of been true to who I am. It's like, when you're building a company

00:05:16

and your team, you cannot just do it fully your way, right? You need to find a compromise. But I am happy that it feels like a company that I've been part of starting, which I have. What are some things that I would have maybe done differently? I mean, there's probably plenty. I think one thing that jumps to mind, and it's important for me not to make this sound like I'm talking bad about anything, or about anyone: I have been through a founder split. And one thing that I've learned is that if I could have done it again, I would have spent more time making sure that the co-founder was... that we also had, can you say, a match in terms of personalities. You don't need to be friends, but it needs to be someone that you want to spend plus 50 hours with per week, right? And I think, I mean, I sort of just leaped into this quite quickly. And I normally move very fast. And then sometimes it's good, and sometimes you then, I wouldn't call it make a mistake, but in hindsight we should have spent more time making sure that it was the right match, and, you know, now we made that decision. So...

Konstantin Girst 00:06:33

That's something that Julius and I will certainly agree on.

Host 00:06:36

Yeah, definitely.

00:06:37

We surely spend a lot of time together. And to go into your journey of founding a little bit more deeply: when you work at MBB or any other very prestigious firm, I would say, to a certain extent, you have golden handcuffs, right? And I'm sure that also makes it difficult to leave. What did you implement for yourself as a mental framework, that you had some sense of security, that you're like, okay, but it's fine for me to take that step and to leave a secure environment?

Kim Rants 00:07:08

Yeah. It might sound a bit cliche, but I use something called the regret minimization framework. I can come back to what exactly that is, but I tried before, sort of playing around with the thought of starting something myself and leaving McKinsey, or leaving sort of the corporate ladder. And if you do pros and cons, it's very hard getting to the decision that you should quit your job and start something yourself, because there's a lot of risks. There's probably a lot of cons. But what I did, and this is from, I like to read the biographies, and this is a framework that Jeff Bezos used when he founded Amazon. So no comparison whatsoever. It sounds a bit cliche and so on, but it worked for him. I tried to adopt it. It worked for me as well. It's basically just asking yourself, what are you going to regret the least? And when I turned it that way, it was very, very clear that if I didn't leave McKinsey and try to do a startup, it would haunt me forever, right? Like, I would have probably become a partner, senior partner, do really well, all these things. And I have a lot of respect for that. But I would always have had this nagging thought, like, you know, what if, or should I have done something differently, that I won't have now. And that made the decision actually very easy for me, that I had to do this.

Host 00:08:32

Yeah, I really like that perspective. So, back to Alice.

00:08:36

Early this year you've been in San Francisco.

Kim Rants 00:08:40

Yeah.

Host 00:08:40

At Y Combinator,

00:08:42

which is very impressive, considering, I don't know how many, but I think between 10 and 15 Danish startups

Kim Rants 00:08:47

I think you say 15 or something.

Host 00:08:49

Yeah. Have been there so far. And in our fourth episode we talked to Joakim Bruchmann from Pluto.

Kim Rants

Yeah, know him.

Host 00:08:56

And he... very nice podcast, actually. So if you haven't listened to that, please do so.

00:09:03

And he talked about that experience being very rewarding, but also very high pressure. So could you maybe tell us a little bit about your experience there?

Kim Rants 00:09:13

Yeah, I mean, so I start off by saying that I think it was a fantastic experience. So we basically applied for Y Combinator. Then we were interviewed on November 18th last year and got in November 19th, and then we had to be in San Francisco in January. And so basically from when you get in, it starts being quite hectic, because you have to flip your company from being a Danish one to being a Delaware. So there's a lot of legal stuff there. And I also made the decision that I wanted to invite the team to San Francisco. So this is normally just for founders, but I thought, you know, this would be an incredible team experience if I could get the team with me. So I made it optional for them, and surprisingly everyone on the team decided to go. So we basically rented a house south of San Francisco, and we stayed there, six colleagues or so in one house, you know, sharing a kitchen, all these things, and just turned the living room into a coding space. And then you basically go through 11 weeks that are, can you say, extremely intense. The first nine weeks you spend on basically just growing and building. It's very simple, right? You just try to get as far as you can in nine weeks. And then you have two weeks of fundraising. And for me it was one of the best experiences and most fun experiences doing a startup. So I can only recommend.

00:10:44

I think there is a lot of pressure there, sure. But I don't know if it was like... I've been in a lot of high pressure situations. And I don't know if that was higher or not, but it was at least very intense and very fun. And I sort of look back at it in a very positive way.

Host 00:11:04

Sounds exactly like the movie The Social Network.

Kim Rants 00:11:07

But it is a bit like that. That is, can you say, a bit sort of the dream I had, right? Like, I wanted to make this feel like a very, almost stereotypical startup experience, right? Where we lived in one house, we were just working every day, and that was the experience, right? Like, obviously we also did other things than work, but it was not because we wanted to go and see, you know, nature. The experience was to actually try to do something together for almost three months in this way, and that was a big experience in itself.

Host 00:11:41

It definitely sounds like the dream.

00:11:43

Yeah. So maybe apart from the business growth, do you also long-term see the value you gained as a team, because you stuck together for quite a...

Kim Rants 00:11:54

I think it definitely helped shape our culture. So I think, so what was actually valuable there? I think first and foremost the team building. I think you go through something that you normally don't go through with people, that creates a special bond. For me personally it was also one of the best, can you say, CEO sparring experiences. You work with incredibly smart people. You have a partner from YC who's been a CEO before, like, built an incredibly big company. So I learned a lot. And then I also just think, like, I think Alice is this Danish company with a Danish culture, but sprinkled with some, you know, American ambition, or something like a blue sky mentality, and that is, I think, healthy. Like, I like how we are in Denmark. I like being in Denmark. I'm proud of being Danish, all these things. But I do think that the Americans, and especially in Silicon Valley, are a bit more: if anybody can build the best, etc., in the world, why not us, sort of? And I think that mentality... I would argue that I maybe, naively, always had that a little bit, because that's sort of how I'm wired. But at least now I think it's more clear that we have that as a company.

Host 00:13:19

I mean, you can see that it certainly swaps over to Europe. I mean, we have the Silicon Valhalla right next to us, and hopefully Denmark is...

00:13:27

We need to find a fancy nickname for Copenhagen as well. Yeah.

Julius Ambrosius 00:13:31

So I actually looked up your YC profile.

Kim Rants

Yes.

Julius Ambrosius 00:13:34

And there it stated that the core market opportunity for Alice is over 10 billion US in the exam prep segment. Can you maybe walk us through how you arrived at that market sizing, and how you think Alice is positioned right now?

Kim Rants 00:13:51

Yeah, I mean, again, I wouldn't put too much into that number. I think what you will realize when you do something like that is that you just need to get investors convinced that the market size is big, right? Whether it's 10 billion, 20 billion, whatever, it doesn't matter too much, I think. How we arrived at that particular number, which is a nice round number, if I'm not mistaken, and I haven't actually paid any attention to that number since: I think we took, like, what is the revenue we'll get from one user? And it was roughly $10 per month. So let's just make it simple and say $100 per year. And then we calculated how many students are there in the US and in Europe. I don't remember that number exactly anymore. And then we basically said, and these were university students and about high school. And then we said, what is a realistic market share to get of that? And if you then take $100 per year per student, sort of, and you divide it into 10 billion, then you would basically get the number of users that we say that we can get in the future, in a very ambitious scenario. So it was a quite simple model, but there was some math and assumptions behind it, right?

00:15:11

But I think it's more like, if you think of it a different way, I think education, even though people don't have a lot of money, is still one of the biggest industries in the world, right? Like, I think 20% of all people or something, I don't have the numbers anymore as well, but it's like affiliated to education, either teaching or working institution or being a student. So it's more than one billion people, probably closer to two billion even, that is in this market. So if you can become a leader there, or just one of them, then the market is huge.

Host 00:15:50

The best investment is certainly the investment in yourself.

Kim Rants 00:15:54

I think so too.

Konstantin Girst 00:15:55

Yeah, definitely. And I think that's also something that Julius and I talked about, because obviously, especially in this Y Combinator context, it's important to present your company in an appealing way towards potential investors or potential stakeholders. But I think also, on the other side, this also kind of allows yourself to create incentives and motivations. And I think that's also what we see with the podcast. When we recently talked about this, we were like, we need to set ourselves certain goals that we want to achieve. And then when we actually start working towards a goal, it will provide you with momentum, and it will accelerate how you go about doing your business. But since Julius has started talking about numbers...

Yes.

Host 00:16:33

I mean, you raised 4.2 million euros earlier this year, and also there has been some rapid user growth, with roughly 650%, I think.

Kim Rants 00:16:42

[unclear] That sounds right. Yeah. Yes. Yeah.

Host 00:16:45

I mean, great numbers. Congratulations, first of all.

00:16:48

And

00:16:49

what other metrics do you currently track? And then also, because now we're in November, are there any key milestones that you have in mind when we're thinking about 2026?

Kim Rants 00:16:59

Yeah. So if I think about 2026, I think if we're doing really well, we'll probably go, and this is always, I should be careful saying this, right? But there's at least a chance that we go and raise a Series A then in 2026. And for that to be true, then we need some quite aggressive growth targets. So what do we then track? I think our North Star, even though it sounds a bit sort of... [...] But it is like revenue. That is the main one.

00:17:32

Obviously underneath that is users. So we track revenue, we track users, and then we track a number of other metrics that we care about, like for example activity on the platform, right? So daily active users or monthly active users. We track things like how much of our growth is coming through, for example, referrals and word of mouth. It's a bit hard to attribute sometimes, versus paid marketing. We think it's always nicer to have people come through because the product is good, and then people tell their friends and so on, or refer their friends. We track things like how many of our users are on annual subscriptions versus monthly. So we have a list of, I think it's five, six KPIs that we care about a lot, but it's in some tiers, and the biggest one is revenue and users, and then some of the others that I mentioned. Then obviously we have a lot of other things that we track, right? But you can quickly just get distracted if you look at all of them at the same time. So there are some metrics we look at every month, if not every week, or even daily. Yeah.

Host 00:18:36

Cool. And I think also, as a little pitch from our side here, because when we're talking about users, I think with our service that we're providing, we're potentially speaking to your target audience.

Kim Rants 00:18:49

Yes.

Host 00:18:49

And so

Kim Rants 00:18:50

that is true.

Host 00:18:52

So, we looked at some figures before this, and I think around 40% of our listeners are aged 20 to 27, with

Kim Rants

Okay.

Host 00:19:01

our four biggest countries being Denmark, Germany, US and UK. So if you're maybe interested in working together at some point down the line, we can most certainly have a talk.

Kim Rants 00:19:10

Let's talk after this about

00:19:13

video.

Host

One other thing that I'm curious, when we talk about engaging customers, and that's a question with two sides: I think there's also a huge opportunity, in my eyes, to work with organizations and not just with students, because, I mean, that will just

00:19:31

skyrocket your potential to access, of course. And do you have any set in stone strategy here, on how you want to approach individuals and institutions? And then also with your product, how do you see that Alice.tech could influence and change the educational landscape? I mean, when we look fast forward, maybe in five to six years, how that is actually a direct impact on how stuff is taught at universities.

Kim Rants 00:19:58

So there's a lot of questions in there. So I'll start from the sort of one. When you say organizations or institutions, you mean like CBS and so on, like universities, schools and so on. So this is actually one place where I've, let's call it, gotten smarter after starting Alice. When I started Alice, I actually contacted CBS, some of my old professors, and they all liked the idea, but it was like, I remember, this is one and a half years ago, and they were like, oh, but we're a bit sort of conservative on AI. We don't really know what our policy is going to be and so on. We're not even allowed to use it as professors. That was how it was back then. I don't know what it is like now. And then I was like, but I believe so much in this idea, so now it just goes straight to the students. And I think there's some advantages to that, because now we're building a product for the students, and we get direct feedback from them, and it's much quicker iteration. So we're sort of going that route, and so we are as a company, I would say, 100% focused on that. I have still had some dialogues with universities, high schools and so on, and actually CBS is buying from us. So they are a customer of ours, but it's very, very small scale, and we also have some other universities and some high schools and so on. But what I've learned is that it's unfortunately moving quite slow, and that's a bit of a shame. So I think the potential is there, but my hypothesis is that students are going to be

00:21:28

two, if not more, years ahead of the institutions in how to use AI. So we are going to focusing on the students and serving them. And then I think if we all of a sudden have, I'm just throwing a number out there, 20% of all students at CBS, it's going to be much easier for me to approach CBS and say, shouldn't we just talk again, and then strike something where everybody just gets access.

00:21:53

So that's sort of our strategy: we like the idea of, let's call it, B2C, B2B or B2G, like government or business. But we're going for the students, and then the other thing will just have to follow.

Konstantin Girst 00:22:09

I think that's very interesting and true. I mean, I remember it was early 2023 when ChatGPT became a thing for the first time. [...] [...] So

Kim Rants 00:22:32

Yeah.

Julius Ambrosius 00:22:33

But maybe just to jump in on that, if we talk about the product, because you state on your about page that Alice.tech transforms generic course materials into personalized learning experiences, such as quizzes, flashcards, pacing, etc.

00:22:49

Could you describe how your AI engine works and how it really differentiates from what Konstantin just described? Because also, in terms of universities, I know that one of the biggest business schools in Germany, WHU, actually just a couple of months ago licensed all of the students OpenAI Pro, I believe.

Kim Rants

Okay.

Julius Ambrosius 00:23:09

So, could you maybe give us some...

Kim Rants 00:23:12

So I mean,

00:23:14

I'll just take a step back first. So I think ChatGPT, products like this, obviously ChatGPT is the main one, but I think they're fantastic products. I use it myself. But it's also, I would say, a very sort of... ChatGPT is supposed to do a lot of things, right? Like, I can both study there, I can also ask, where should I go on vacation, what should I have for dinner tonight, any type of thing. And I think if you go deep in a domain, whether it's education or medicine or whatever, you can actually create an experience that is better. Like, I fundamentally believe that, and that's what we are trying to do. So how does it actually work? So I think there are some things that students struggle with, and this is not an exhaustive list, but one thing is just getting a good overview and some structure, and maybe just a chat interface is not the best for that. So we sort of try to create this, can you say, learning or studying journey, everything from starting on [unclear], to planning that a bit, to figuring out how should you structure this. We're coming out with a cool feature in two days, so probably out when this podcast airs, where we help the students sort of get this overview. And then from there we try to guide the student through everything from note taking, where, like, if you really want to sort of say, oh, I could just write my notes and [unclear] put it into GPT and so on. But we try to, again, sort of focus just on...

00:24:44

You shouldn't take notes on Alice if it's not for studying. But then we basically, when we refine your notes with AI, we use the context that you've uploaded, put it in all the other context that you have, and we try to make the best study notes for you. And then we also just use, can you say, our domain knowledge. Like, I've taught for 12 years or so. So I think about how would I break things down, and we basically force the AI to do something like that. Then you have an exercise interface that I think is more playful, it's more entertaining. You can come back to things. We track sort of where you're good and less good, and we guide you through that whole learning experience. So that's a bit how I see the difference: we are focused only on studying. Then you can come into, like, oh, we also have the chat and so on, and I would say if you just use a chat, just the chat itself, I mean, ChatGPT is probably better. But one thing that also differentiates us here is that if you go to Alice, then you can chat with your curriculum. You can actually chat, and it will open up where it came from in your messy notes or whatever. So we're trying to do those things that are better for you as a student. But if you just want to figure out where should I go and travel and whatever, you can use Alice for that as well, right? But I'm never going to say we're just going to have a better universal chat than ChatGPT, right? That would be, like, that's impossible.

00:26:04

But I do think we can create a tool that is better for studying.

Host 00:26:10

Yeah,

00:26:10

I mean, I think it's obvious that having a more tailored product will provide a more tailored and more unique and better user experience. But when we look at numbers here, according to the Financial Times, investment in online education fell down to 3 billion US in the last year, and it was around 16, 17 billion during the pandemic, when it was at its peak. And I think that is because people are resigning to free AI tools. And if a potential user of Alice.tech is not necessarily directly aware of how good the product would be for them and how beneficial it can be, and they don't necessarily see that the benefit they'll receive from paying for Alice.tech will outweigh the financial investment that they have to put up for it: how do you address that potential concern that some potential customers may have?

Kim Rants 00:27:03

But I think that's just a communication challenge for us, I guess. I mean, so I think it starts with the product, right? But if it is actually better than ChatGPT, if we are, then it's down to communication. And I think student is obviously a segment that don't have a lot of money, and I have a lot of empathy for that. I've been a student myself for many, many years. But I also actually think that if you can convince students that you can help them get better grades, for example, or save time, because as a student you want to do so many things, you are not that price... I guess you are less sensitive to prices than if it's something else.

00:27:49

So for me it starts with the product, and if we can build a product that is good enough, and I think we already have many thousands of users that sort of see that benefit,

00:27:58

then the rest is just a communication challenge. And that's not easy, but that's something I'm sure we'll figure out.

Host

Yeah,

00:28:06

for sure. I mean, I think that's also, I would say, obviously with students, not just with your product, but with products in general. Obviously, students are relatively averse and putting up high investments, but I think those are, like, access to free time and access to better grade results. I mean, those are probably the most two important things for every student, right? So,

Kim Rants 00:28:25

I see how that makes sense.

00:28:27

But I mean, Alice will never be... I think it's hard to forecast, right? It will never be a super expensive product, right? Because you need to be able to... And for us it's actually also quite important that we have a free version of Alice. We do,

00:28:41

because I think there's also something meaningful in being able to help all students. And then obviously you can do more on our premium account than a free one, right? But we do think it's a good sort of and purposeful thing to be able to help students even if they don't have a lot of money. So we do have both free and paid. Yes.

Host 00:29:04

I really like that. So in terms of marketing and also your target audience, because

00:29:09

your target audience is probably between the age of, you name it, 16 and 25, I don't know,

Kim Rants 00:29:14

something like that. Yeah.

Host

[...]

Kim Rants 00:29:22

Exactly.

Host 00:29:23

The usual suspects: Instagram, TikTok, whatever. And I saw that you do a lot of user generated content to market your product.

Kim Rants 00:29:31

Yeah.

Host 00:29:31

And I'm just curious, because we're actually going to interview someone in one and a half or two weeks who's doing Superscale. I don't know if you're familiar.

Kim Rants 00:29:39

I am a little familiar with them. So it's superscale.ai, right?

Host 00:29:43

Yeah.

00:29:44

So what they basically do is AI generated UGC content.

00:29:50

Yeah. And is that something that you would use, or do you have the opinion that it has to be really authentic, with real people behind it?

Kim Rants 00:29:59

Oh, it's a good question. So we have looked a bit into superscale.ai. We haven't used it yet. So I think, I mean, why do you do marketing, right? At the end of it we want to reach students, and we want to give them some message that is around the product and hopefully gets them into the product, and then we help them there.

Host

Mhm.

Kim Rants 00:30:28

So it's not like I have this, can you say, philosophical thing that we could not use AI generated content. I don't have that, but at the same time, it needs to feel authentic. We need to sort of talk at [unclear] to students and so on. And if you see an ad that is clearly AI generated, or it's just not authentic, I think that would be a turnoff for most students. So then we won't do it. But, you know, if we could in a nice way share the same message to students, and it wouldn't come across as awkward, whatever, AI, I don't think I would have anything against it, right? Because, I mean, what we really care about is our product, and we want to build a product that's fantastic, and that's what we care about. And then we acknowledge that we need to get that in the hands of students, and we need to communicate to them, and I see AI as a tool there. But I don't want to compromise on, can you say, making it authentic, or sort of... you can quickly then hurt your brand, right? So I think this is also an industry that's so early, and we are trying to figure out how we should look at this. But I mean, we use AI to help students learn at Alice.

00:31:58

I don't see a reason why we shouldn't be able to use [unclear] to also communicate or create marketing. But I'm not an expert here, right? So I think this is a place where we would rather hear from students. What we have done is that we've actually done a few tests, where we haven't made it live, but where we had a real video and then an AI video, and we showed it to a person, and some people didn't notice that it was AI. So we hadn't actually [unclear] that, but we've done some of those tests, and I think then it starts getting a bit interesting. But again, I mean, I'm no expert here, and it's very, very early, right? But for us it starts with the product and helping students, and if AI can then be a good tool for reaching them, then we're not against using AI, I think.

Host 00:32:48

Yeah, I feel like as long as it feels authentic,

00:32:52

it's legit. But it's some very valuable input for the podcast with Patrick.

Kim Rants 00:32:58

Yeah. Yeah. But it is a bit sort of philosophical, right? Because, like, I mean,

00:33:03

if you had asked me, I think, 3 years ago, and you just sort of said, hey, you can create this video with a character that looks real but is actually AI, I would have been like, ah, I don't like that idea. And I'm also not sure I like the idea fully, but I'm sort of trying to see where the market is going, right? And if that's how you then communicate with people, then maybe at some point we need to follow. But for now, we're using real humans, and that we're proud of.

Host 00:33:34

Yeah, I think it's also interesting to see how quickly this growth became expected, and also how quickly we were able to get used to it, right? Because, as you said, like 3 years ago, if someone would have told me, you can go on Chrome or Safari, go on this AI website, and then you just start prompting and it gives you an animated video, we all would have been like, yeah, but how good can it be, right? And now it's like every three months, almost, I get this notification: ChatGPT, so and so just launched, and it looks better than ever. And it's like every time you're like, how does it... it's such an exponential growth when it comes to improvement. So I think it's also very interesting to see how this will evolve within the next months and years.

Kim Rants

For sure.

Host 00:34:12

Yeah, we play around with Sora all the time. I mean,

00:34:15

I got some videos on my phone where Mark Cuban markets our podcast as the best podcast out there.

Kim Rants 00:34:21

I mean, from a personal perspective, I think

00:34:24

it is a bit scary. Like, so I think we're trying to figure out, as a company, and we want to do the moral right thing, and ethical, and all these things, right? But just from a personal point of view,

00:34:36

this thing that you can get to a point where you cannot really tell the difference. I feel like I can still tell the difference, because I'm so exposed to it.

00:34:44

But it probably won't be many years, right, where you cannot sort of tell the difference. Maybe even shorter. I think that is actually a bit sort of scary.

Host 00:34:51

Yeah, especially when it comes to IP, and also, like,

00:34:54

creativity and everything.

00:34:56

So, as you mentioned, you're about to launch Alice [unclear].

00:35:02

Oh. Can you, I mean, of course, you won't tell us everything now, but can you give us a little sneak peek of what your users can wait?

Kim Rants 00:35:12

Yeah. I mean, so we're launching next week. We call it Alice 2.0. And maybe just one minute on why we're doing that. So I think the Alice journey has been happening so incredibly fast that we built the first product, and then we sort of, can you say, just built on top of that. And that works, but at some point you can also build a product that is maybe a bit too complex, or too many things happening, and all these things. So after YC, we took a real step back and allowed ourselves the time, and worked with some really talented designers that we have, to sort of think through, with everything that we know and everything we're capable of doing, what would be the ideal experience, learning experience, what I talked about before, if we had to design it again. So we basically threw everything up in the air, like no constraints, like how would we design it, and that's basically what we are coming out with now. So it's a bit of a new branded entity. We've changed our coloring. We've introduced a mascot that's a bit more playful. We've changed our design, which we think is much, much better. And then we've also added a few features that are new and better. We've cut some that we don't think were good enough, and then we'll probably reintroduce them, because the idea was probably good enough, when we have that. And then I think the main thing is that it's just become much simpler and better to use Alice. And that sounds a bit sort of, can you say, fluffy, but I think people will really experience

00:36:42

that when they try it again. Then we call it 2.0, you know, because it feels like a completely new product, I think, and we're also a completely new team behind it. So it was quite important for me to actually sort of say, everything that we've done up until now, we're proud of that, and that's sort of been part of our, can you say, company history. But if I look at the team now, and the team just four months ago, when we came home from [unclear] with all the money and had to start hiring, it's a very new team. And it's important for me to say that, you know, now this is the team, right? So now this is the team that is taking Alice on the next journey. So we're obviously doing this for the students, because we think our product will be better. But we're also doing it as a bit of a, can you say, internal celebration, where we've worked really hard for some months with the new team, that now feel real ownership of this, because they're not just getting something that other people built before them. They have actually been part of building this, can you say, almost from scratch again. Of course there are some things we're using sort of in the back end and so on, but it feels like a new product. And then we sort of, both externally and internally, go out and we sort of say, okay, 2.0, that's sort of where we go from here. So I think it's going to be quite exciting. We at least super hyped.

Host 00:37:59

Nice.

Kim Rants 00:37:59

Yeah.

Host 00:38:00

Oh, I mean, guys, you heard it here first.

00:38:03

[...] So

00:38:07

[...]

For sure. Yeah. Yeah.

Host 00:38:15

So now we're going to ask some questions that we ask probably all of our guests, or very similar.

00:38:23

I mean, you've worked on the corporate side and you worked on the entrepreneurship side, and you hired a lot of people, and you were hired by quite some people. [...] What are some very important soft and also hard skills, and what would you say is more important right now?

Kim Rants

Oh,

00:38:51

I mean, so the first one is a very soft thing, and it maybe even sounds like a no-brainer, but I think it's just important to be nice to people.

Host

Mhm.

Kim Rants 00:39:00

Like, too many people take that for granted. Like, nobody wants to work with a quote unquote, or whatever, right? And you will be surprised, your reputation travels before you. So if you are a nice person, someone who's helping other people, someone who's, can you say, doing good things, whatever good means, then people will help you. People will want to work with you. If you're the opposite, it will also be the opposite result. So I think that's just important to be aware of, and I think that effect is even stronger in a small country like Denmark, where, you know, most people sort of know each other if you are in the same space, right? Like, you know, Joakim, I know him, right? And you can probably bring up other founders that have been to Y Combinator in Denmark, and I probably know who they are. So I think that's just something that people should be aware of. And that's also the first thing that I consider when I hire someone: would I want this person on my team, spending time with this person? So I think the soft skills of being a nice person, having empathy, all these things, really, really matter. I think communication is an undervalued skill. So, I mean, you don't need to be a good communicator to be nice to be with. So I see this as a different thing,

00:40:21

but I think being able to communicate very clearly is super valuable. And it's something that I try to be better at myself. If I then sort of go to, can you say, the hard skills... actually, I want to stay on the soft skills a bit more. I think attitude, and having a bit of a hardworking mentality, or a can do attitude. I really appreciate that personally, like, people on my team, they will sort of... I think it's hard tackling tough problems, and if you bring smart people together and you have a mentality that is like, we're going to solve this, that's just both more fun, and most of the time you solve it. So people that have sort of this I can do this attitude, rather than being, ah, you know, a new problem, sort of,

00:41:20

I really appreciate that. And if we can then take the [unclear] of the more hard skills,

00:41:28

I mean, it depends on the role, I would say. I think the soft skills are maybe a bit more universal. I think the hard skills are a bit more related to the role itself. But I think being a good problem solver is always a good thing. Like, being able to take a complex problem and break it into solvable pieces, and then start solving each of them. And whether that is then in code or in strategy or whatever it is, I think that's a very valuable skill.

Host 00:42:01

Nice. And I mean, when it comes to building relationships and talking to people, I mean, you've been a management consultant, and you also successfully pitched your company to Y Combinator. So I think you're more than qualified to answer this question.

Kim Rants 00:42:15

That's right.

Host 00:42:15

For a lot of people, especially when they are more introverted, it's sometimes maybe difficult to find a mentor, or to network and to reach out to people. And what would you maybe recommend to the people that are more shy here, and a little bit more timid in going about this?

Kim Rants 00:42:30

Yeah. I mean, I'm sure there's people that are more introverted than me, but I would actually look at myself as being introverted. Because, like, there's probably people that know much more about this than myself, but, like, extrovert versus introvert: I get energy from being alone sometimes. I like being alone. Like, I like doing things like this. I like being with my team and so on. But it's also, can you say, taxing for me. It's not like I just naturally seek out the big crowds. I enjoy it selectively, but I think I am actually more introvert. So I've never been the type of person that would go to a network event and just meet new people. So what has worked for me is, I try to find a few things that I care about and I do really well. And then I meet people along that journey that I'm then sort of nice towards, not because I have to, but it's just like I just want to, I guess, right? And then I build my network that way. And that has sort of served me well. So I don't think you necessarily need to have the biggest network. That can be fine. But I am more a person that sort of, I have few people that I know really well, and I really care for, and sort of are close with me. And then, given my career and everything that I've sort of done, and I mean this in a humble way, I've probably built a bigger

00:44:01

network of, can you say, more loose connections, and I appreciate that as well. But I have never seen myself as a really, really good or big networker. So, yeah, I guess the point is more like, I don't think you necessarily need to see being introverted as something dragging you down there. Then just build few but strong relationships, and that might even be better.

Host 00:44:30

I think that also builds up on what you just said about reputation.

Kim Rants 00:44:34

Yeah.

Host

I personally have the opinion that people that try to reach out to everyone, try to be connected to everyone, usually don't have the best reputation, and those that really value quality over quantity in that context

00:44:46

are recognizable because of that.

00:44:50

So now, in hindsight, if you could talk to maybe the younger Kim, before founding Alice,

Kim Rants 00:44:56

Yes.

Host 00:44:56

what's one thing you would tell your younger self?

Kim Rants

I'll throw in another cliche quote there, but then it'll probably be, like, just do it. Like, I don't think I needed to wait as long as I did.

00:45:13

I'm like, I don't regret anything. I'm happy I made the choices I did. I enjoyed my time in McKinsey. I also met my now wife there, and so on. So there's a lot of good things from doing that. If you want to be a good entrepreneur, you don't need to stay in McKinsey until you're a quite tenured associate partner. Like, the best way to be an entrepreneur is probably just to go and try it.

00:45:38

So I could probably have left earlier, but again, I enjoyed my time there. So it's not like I regret it, but it's like, I think if you know that you want to do something, and for me it was doing something like this, I could probably have done it a bit earlier.

Host

Mhm.

Kim Rants 00:45:54

And it's also just my advice to other students or people who want to be founders. Like, I've gotten a lot of questions from students, like, oh, if I also want to do a startup, and I want to do something, should I then do this, and then that after, and then this will set me up perfectly, and this whole 10 year plan.

00:46:16

And it's just like, if you know you want to do this one thing, then just go and do it now, right? And then you might fail once or twice. But I think the more direct way is probably more effective than trying to plan too much and so on. Like, I never planned that my startup would be around education. But looking back, it's very clear that that was natural, right? I've been teaching for more than 10 years. I've done two master's degrees.

00:46:45

All of a sudden, I end up knowing something about learning. But it was impossible for me 10 years ago to plan that. So I think, yeah, my advice would just be to sort of trust your professional impulses, I guess. Yeah.

Host 00:47:01

Yeah. So, just do it. That's a good closing note for the very interesting conversation we had today. So thank you so much again for taking some time off.

Kim Rants 00:47:12

Thank you. It was a pleasure. I really enjoyed it.

Host 00:47:15

Yeah.

00:47:15

Super cool.

00:47:16

Yeah. And to everyone out there, make sure to, yeah, leave a comment if you have found anything particularly interesting. Like and subscribe [...]

Kim Rants 00:47:27

You should.

Host 00:47:28

Exactly. And also tune in in two weeks, because our next guest will be former German Vice Chancellor Robert Habeck. So I think that one will be a very interesting conversation as well. So we look forward to having you back on the show then. See you guys.

00:47:41

See you. Thank you.